Financial Questions Don’t End When You Earn More

Allison Puryear [00:00:00]: 

Y’all, we are not putting away enough for retirement. I am so worried about that because we usually aren’t making enough in agencies to put a substantial amount away. Go for that 401k match if you got it, please. And then we pause while we’re building our practice. And if you don’t set that up, nobody’s setting that up for you. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:00:30]: 

Welcome to Money Skills for Therapists, the podcast that helps therapists and health practitioners in private practice go from money confusion and shame to calm, clarity and confidence with their finances. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by numbers or avoided looking at your business money, you’re in the right place. I’m Linzy Bonham, therapist turned money coach and creator of Money Skills for Therapists. Before we jump in, I want to remind you of something really important. Most of us highly skilled and competent therapists and health practitioners were never taught about money. Not in grad school, not in supervision, not anywhere. And yet here we are, running businesses that need to take care of us while we’re busy taking care of others. It is a lot of pressure. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:01:10]: 

So if part of you feels anxious about money avoidant or like a bit of a hot mess financially, I want you to know that you are not alone. And I am here to help. Through my free live workshops each month, I teach practical financial skills to help you feel more grounded, calm and confident with your private practice money. You can see what’s coming up and save your spot to join live or register for the replay@moneyskillsfortherapist.com workshops. Let’s get started. Hello and welcome back to the podcast. Today’s guest is Allison Puryear. Allison is a figure in the practice building space. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:01:45]: 

She’s been doing this work with therapists now, helping them build their private practices for 11 years. She is the creator of Abundance Practice Building and she has the Abundance Practice Party. And Allison actually one of the people who inspired me to start this business eight years ago when I went and did some work with her and Tiffany McLean in San Francisco. So really exciting to have somebody who’s part of my own business growth and development back on the podcast today. For her second time on the podcast today, Allisonand I talk about what she has noticed about therapists in private practice in terms of how they relate to money at different stages of practice growth. What’s hard for those of us who are new versus what challenges do those of us who are more established have. We talk about her own huge transformations in terms of finances in her own life and how that’s changed over her life and, you know, the challenges that come up now around money. And we also talk about her greatest concern for therapists. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:02:43]: 

The thing that worries her the most about therapists and private practice when it comes to finances. Here is my conversation with Allison Puryear. So, Allison Puryear, welcome back to the podcast. 

Allison Puryear [00:03:00]: 

Hey. Hey. Thanks for having me. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:03:02]: 

This. This feels a little bit like, I don’t know, homecoming’s not the right word, but you were the very first guest I had on this podcast. 

Allison Puryear [00:03:11]: 

Oh, wow. I don’t think I knew that. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:03:15]: 

I was like, go big, Start big. And just recently, I released my 200th episode. So it’s been a minute since you were on the podcast. 

Allison Puryear [00:03:23]: 

Yeah, it has. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:03:24]: 

So it’s nice to have you back. 

Allison Puryear [00:03:25]: 

And you’ve been on mine so much too. So, yes, I’m like, we need to. We need to have Lindsay. We need more money talk. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:03:31]: 

Always. Money talk always. So we’re both a little wiser than when we last had a conversation on this podcast specifically. And this is one of the things that I am so excited about, having you on the podcast today is you are like an OG in our space, which, like, I think says a lot about our space that, like, OG is like 11 years. I’m also getting. I think I feel like I’m moving towards OG at eight years because we’re, you know, it’s a little baby world, this education for therapist world that we occupy. But you have worked with so many therapists over the years. You are like a woman of reach, right? Like, I find my courses, like, I tend to, you know, like, they’re a little bit higher tickets, so we get less people, like, which works well for me. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:04:15]: 

But you are a true extrovert. You love helping all the humans. You have so much to give. You’re so generous with those humans, which means you’ve gotten to work with so, so many therapists over the years. I’m curious, like, do you have an estimate of how many folks you’ve directly served over the years, like, in your community and courses? 

Allison Puryear [00:04:31]: 

I mean, over 10,000 at this point. It’s a lot. A lot of people. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:04:35]: 

Because. 

Allison Puryear [00:04:35]: 

Because of the membership site, it being lower cost and easily. More easily accessible financially, and working with both beginners and people who are farther along and wanting to make changes to a full practice. I think, because I’ve got the breadth of therapists. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:04:50]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:04:51]: 

It’s been a lot of people. A lot of. A lot of great people. Yes. Okay. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:04:54]: 

So, I mean, starting with that piece, because you. You work with folks at the beginning you work with folks who are more established. Like what do you see in, in changes with what comes up around money for people at those different stages of building their private practice, I’m going to 

Allison Puryear [00:05:09]: 

have skewed insights, so I want to own that first. Right. So like I typically work with beginners who are paying $69 a month. Right. So it is a low ticket membership site. So my people are often coming from like making next to nothing in agencies. And there’s a lot of kind of building them up and helping them see what’s possible that they need at that stage. I will say that the longer some of us have been at this and doing this, I’m seeing like the newbies now versus the newbies 10 years ago or 11 years ago. 

Allison Puryear [00:05:44]: 

Yeah, the newbies now. It’s more in the zeitgeist that you actually can make money as a therapist in a way that it didn’t used to be. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:05:51]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:05:52]: 

So as a result, we’ve got people who might be expecting a little bit more money right out of school now versus then. But I’m going to get off track and go into now versus then. And your question is not that. So I’ll say the people that are newer, they haven’t yet proven to themselves that they can make money doing this. It is very scary. We’re in economically uncertainty times. They haven’t proven themselves to themselves yet. And I think that that process is my favorite part. 

Allison Puryear [00:06:25]: 

Like, it’s more than the working lesson, making more. I think it’s the confidence that you gain through business ownership that I don’t think you can gain in any other way. It’s different from parenting confidence. It’s different from clinical confidence. There’s this like, I created something out of nothing that can rely on myself. That’s why I love working with the newbies, is that that gets to happen. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:06:49]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:06:50]: 

The folks I work with who are farther down the line, these are typically people with full practices who are, they are maxed out. They are like, is this it? I don’t know that I could do this for the rest of my career. They usually need to either get off insurance panels or raise their rates or do something fundamentally to shift their practice. It might be not working evenings anymore. So they come to me because they’re like, I don’t, I’ve got golden handcuffs, but they’re, they’re not platinum handcuffs, but I don’t want to break what I built. And those folks, they have relied on themselves, but they’ve got this story of I Can only rely on myself in this context of taking insurance or having a lower fee than they want to have or working weekends and evenings or whatever. So that’s really fun because I get to help them see that you could rely on yourself all along. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:07:43]: 

And I love that point about business as a confidence builder. Like my new escape, which this is shocking to me that I’m about to say this, but my new escape that I’ve started engaging in to escape this world we live in is reading romantic fantasy. 

Allison Puryear [00:07:56]: 

Oh, girl, I got a whole book. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:07:57]: 

High school. I’m sure you do. And Megan Megginson got me onto it, who, you know, I met through you years ago when we did Next with youh and Tiffany McLean. So she got me onto it, of course. Makes sense. She’s a sex therapist. I’m like, you know, usually I read, like, sad Canadiana, like, immigration suffering stories. And I was like, okay, so. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:08:13]: 

But it’s making me think about kind of this metaphor of, like, private practice kind of hones us like a blade, right? Where it’s like we kind of get, like, pounded into shape and, like, business ownership. I’ve joked before. 

Allison Puryear [00:08:23]: 

Get pounded into shape. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:08:25]: 

I don’t. Okay, not okay, Sorry. That was not. 

Allison Puryear [00:08:28]: 

That’s the romance part. Anyways. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:08:30]: 

Yeah, sorry. I was reading it in the middle of the night last night when I couldn’t sleep, but. Honed like a blade. Let’s go back to the word honed. Thank you, Allison. Because it. I’ve said before, and I’m sure you talk about this, too with your folks, like, having your own business is like, the best therapy you can do. Like, every insecurity you have, every negative story, every limiting belief, like, they are all gonna come right up, and you’re gonna have to deal with every single one at every step of the game. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:08:56]: 

So what I’m hearing is, like, you see that folks who come into the beginning, it’s kind of like, is my time valuable? Can I actually get paid for this? Can I. You know, is this valuable? And also coming out of the agency context, we’ve been trained that it’s not valuable. Right? So I’m hearing, like, there’. There’s none learning there at the beginning, but what I’m hearing is even the folks you’re working on later, it’s like, can this actually give me the life that I want? I’m doing it, but I’m doing it at my own expense. Because maybe of fees or schedule, usually boundaries is a big part of it. So it’s this actually believing that not Only do I deserve to get paid well for the work that I do and I can get paid well for the work that I do, but I can also do it on terms that it’s not sacrificing my well being. 

Allison Puryear [00:09:36]: 

Exactly. Because there’s also this through line of martyrdom that a lot of us are indoctrinated with in our grad school programs of like, you will probably not make any money, but you’re going to be so much better than everybody else. You’re just such a good person. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:09:53]: 

Yeah, yeah. Pearly Gates, they’ll be like bam, great person. Until then you’re going to be broke. 

Allison Puryear [00:09:59]: 

Right? 

Linzy Bonham  [00:09:59]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:09:59]: 

Yeah, right. Which is so, so incorrect. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:10:02]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:10:02]: 

And I’m glad that the tide is shifting and people are starting to see that there are other options besides poverty. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:10:09]: 

Yes, agreed. And I noticed that, you know, last year Diane Weber, who works with me and I, we went down to both the NASW conference and the ACA conference. We did our little conference stint. Let me tell you, from a business perspective, it was very Spencey, very spicy, you know that. But it was so cool to get to like meet people in person who are not the people that we already like chat with and are connected with online. And I noticed that about grad students. Like grad students would come and they’d be like, I’m trying to talk about money in my grad school program but they won’t let me. But like I want to talk about like how I make money or like I’m determined to like leave and start private practice. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:10:43]: 

And I, I can kind multiple voices in my head because I think about sometimes to the group practice owners who I work with who are like when you’re new you think you know more than you do. Like some of it is just like, you know, the arrogance of you. But the clear thing is that they’re like, no, I’m going to make money in this profession. Like I’m not going to poor in order to do this work. And that is, that is a tide change that is different than when it was when, when I started out in private practice or when you started in private practice for sure. Yeah. What do you think the change is? Like what is it with Gen Z? It would be that they are have this more positive messaging around money or are owning their need for money more. I don’t know what to name it. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:11:19]: 

But what do you think it is? 

Allison Puryear [00:11:20]: 

Well, I mean I think when I was, when I was coming up, like I finished my degree in 2024, right. And then I started a private practice in 2000 or not 2024. Hello. I finished my MSW in 2004 and started a side private practice in 2005. So I’ve been, I’ve been in private practice for 21 years. And when I moved to Seattle to do like full time private practice in a city where I knew no one, I was like, okay, how do I do this? Because before I had enough connections in my small college town, I like stayed as full as I wanted to be for part time, but there was nobody when I was starting. And now there’s a whole industry that we are a part of that helps therapists know that there’s more and there’s different. And it’s not just community mental health until you die. 

Allison Puryear [00:12:13]: 

I think there’s more, you know, social media, for better or worse. There’s, there’s good and bad to that, obviously, but I think that it has helped spread the word that whatever your grad school teachers are telling you about what your career is going to look like might not be the whole story. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:12:28]: 

Yes. And I will say, you know, to the credit of some grad school professors, I did speak with some folks at those conferences who were like, will you come speak to my students? Like, I don’t want them getting this messaging right. Because I think some folks even within that system are like, is this really what we want to teach people? You know, so I’m happy to see the tide change. And I think historically I understand where those messages came from in terms of, I think where our industry came out of and social work and da da, da. But yeah, I’m happy for the folks coming up now because I think a lot of stuff that you and I had to figure out on our own folks now there’s just so many resources now. There’s like too many resources right now. It’s like the overwhelm of like, oh God, there’s so many webinars to attend and there’s so many you communities I could be part of and there’s so many courses. Whereas I remember being so hungry for that information. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:13:15]: 

And in my case, the information I wanted, of course, on the finances and how do we make the numbers work and like, what is the. It just didn’t exist. So I made it for our space. Just like you have done amazing work, you know, in our space around practice building. But yeah, the, the industry is changing. But yeah, I’m hearing that like overcoming those beliefs at different. It’s like new level, new devil. Right? Is what I think of when you’re Describing that? Yes. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:13:39]: 

Yeah. I’m curious, Allison. You know, your own experience of money and, like, I think your own financial situation has changed dramatically because you’re so damn successful. I’m curious, like, how has your own experiences with money impacted how you teach money to therapists so much? 

Allison Puryear [00:13:56]: 

So, I mean, I. I grew up working class. My parents live in a trailer. Like, I am not somebody who expected to make money in my life, you know? And then I went to social work, where all through grad school, I was told, good, yep, you’re in the right place. So as I have made money both through my practice and then through abundance, I think I just started seeing, like, oh, well, like, with my practice, I was like, this wasn’t super hard. Like, I’m making a lot of money. Way more money than I ever imagined. Like, three times what I made in an agency. 

Allison Puryear [00:14:30]: 

And it was like, I’m working less. I had to figure some stuff out, and I had to be consistent and diligent about certain things. But I’m like, life is so much easier and better. Which is why I started, like, proselytizing private practice with abundance. I have made a lot of money. The business has been very successful. I happen to have a kid with dyslexia, and we live in a city where there’s special school just for dyslexic kids that cost more than an Ivy League college. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:14:58]: 

Wow. 

Allison Puryear [00:14:59]: 

And we were able to make that happen. And as a result, it’s also within this very bougie private school where most of the kids don’t have dyslexia. It’s like a school within a school. And that exposed me to, wow, there are a lot of people in my city, which is not a huge city, that have a lot of money. You know, like, my kids, when they were little, were like, why don’t we have a plane? Like, stuff like that. Like, there was nobody in my life growing up who had a plane. The one who was like, one of my kids was like, why do we only have one house? I mean, like, we were surrounded by so much wealth at that school. Again, there are pluses and minuses of that, and ultimately, I’m very glad to have them. 

Allison Puryear [00:15:42]: 

Like, my youngest in public school right now and have some diversity and things like that around her. But it really did help wake me up to, there are people living very different lives that, as somebody who grew up working class and then had my similar kids in college that I was close with and then went to grad school and bartended. So, like, everybody around me is kind of in the same socioeconomic class and working in the field. Everybody’s in the same socioeconomic class. I forget that there are tons of people in the higher economic classes who are very happy to pay for all the therapy for everyone in their family. And so, like, I hear therapists say a lot like, well, I couldn’t afford that rate, so I can’t charge it. And I’m like, well, yeah, you can’t afford that rate because you’re not charging. Yes, yes. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:16:27]: 

There’s. There’s a cycle there. That’s a cyclical. Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:16:30]: 

Yeah, yeah. So it’s, it’s interesting how, just how we shift and change and think about things and there’s process there. Right. Like being in a group but not of a group. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:16:45]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:16:45]: 

Right. So like, I’ve got new money stuff in this old money crew. Right. So then it gave me all this interesting work to do around money mindset at a new level because I’d been doing it pretty hardcore for decades. And I think that just having. Being around people who have so much money has opened my eyes. And it also, interestingly, and I think you would appreciate, has me veering more towards that millionaire next door world where I don’t want to be flashy or showy. It’s not my vibe anyway. 

Allison Puryear [00:17:21]: 

But knowing the people who are flashy and showy and seeing how there’s a of ton tenuousness to their wealth. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:17:26]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:17:27]: 

And that flashy showiness is almost like a overcompensation. So anyway, I could talk about that all day long. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:17:35]: 

Yeah. 

Allison Puryear [00:17:36]: 

So much. And processed so much. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:17:39]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:17:40]: 

I feel like I am more frugal now with more money than I have been at other points in my life. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:17:46]: 

Right. Yes. Because what I’m hearing is as you’re coming into work with therapists, like, you’ve really like, moved through an arc in terms of like, you’ve occupied multiple kind of like socionomic spaces in your like, not super long life. Right. And I’m hearing in each new space there’s like new things to process and, and make sense of. And I’m also hearing choosing your values. Right. Because something that I notice in myself, which is true of all humans is lifestyle creep is real. 

Allison Puryear [00:18:13]: 

Right. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:18:13]: 

We have more, we spend more. This is, you know, one of the things that, you know, we’re helping folks with. We don’t name it as lifestyle creep because that’s the personal spending side, but it’s like if we don’t actually have clarity on what our values are, where we actually want our money to go, it just disappears to the things that could be labeled dumb shit. If you were feeling judgy about yourself or just like the people you’re surrounded with, you tend to just match your spending to who’s around you. There’s an identity piece as we make more money to being like, well, I’m upper middle class now. What do upper middle class people do on vacation? What are the people at my kids school doing? Where are they going on vacation, what cars are they driving? That we have to stop and decide what really matters to us and who we are. But I’m hearing the really big insight I’m hearing from you. Or the surprising thing is there’s people with money who are happy to pay for therapy and don’t have to decide between therapy and groceries and are paying for their family’s therapy. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:19:06]: 

And that’s something too that I remember I had a client once when I was in private practice who came in and was like, I really want to work with you, but I can’t afford to pay. I just don’t have this money. Could I see you for half hour sessions? And I was like, ah, I was young enough that I was like, I don’t know, let’s try it. I’ve never tried it. Let’s go. So we did a half hour session, obviously for trauma therapy. That’s not great. But he was really happy with the session. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:19:29]: 

So he went away and went to his parents who were like, yeah, we’ll help you pay for therapy. And then came back and was like, I talked to my parents, they’ll help me pay for therapy. So now I’m gonna start coming for like the regular one hour sessions and I’ll come like every two weeks. And like he solved that problem by like leaning on the resources around him. Right. But like, if I had just looked at him at face value, I’d be like, oh, this guy can’t afford therapy. Like, I will take the hit for him. But actually there was money that I couldn’t see because we’re all part of kind of like ecosystems. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:19:57]: 

So yeah, like you never know who in somebody’s life would be happy to pay for therapy. And it doesn’t have to be you, the therapist who makes that sacrifice. 

Allison Puryear [00:20:04]: 

Yes. And I’ll also put out there because I know there are people thinking like, but I don’t just want to work with rich people. Same. Yes, same. And I know there are lots of different opinions on things like sliding scale. Mine is rooted in like, I might not be alive right now if I hadn’t had sliding scale therapy. So I have always offered sliding skills therapy. And not like my rate is 500 and I’m going to charge 400 as a sliding scale. 

Allison Puryear [00:20:26]: 

Like my sliding scale is 50 bucks. And I have always offered that and I’ve always made sure you have to, in my mind you have to earn being able to provide sliding scale therapy by having a healthy business which means enough income coming in. So as long as I’ve been able to, I have always been able to. Well as once I got to a certain point I could offer sliding scale. I always will. And I make sure that the people who are paying full fee are paying enough that I’m just fine being paid $50. I don’t have any resentment about it. And also, I mean I had somebody who was living in their car at one point who was paying my full fee because that was her value. 

Allison Puryear [00:21:03]: 

She was a hippie is fine, but it was like she wanted to pay out of pocket because she wanted to see me specifically because my marketing made it very clear that I was the one for her. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:21:17]: 

Yes. Yeah. And I’m hearing there too, like you let her make her choice. Like my brother lived in his van for a few years. That was a choice that he made. That was a lifestyle. But like if somebody, if we impose our own narrative on people and we’re like, oh well they, oh my gosh, they don’t even have this thing that I value. So therefore they can’t possibly afford therapists. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:21:38]: 

We tend to over function for people, but also that over functioning can be quite intrusive and like we’re taking their agency away from them when we do that. Right. So like the woman who, who lived in her car, if she chose to live in her car and she also wants to pay you full fee, that’s her choice. That’s how she’s choosing to use her money and like that’s her exercising her agency. Right. We don’t need to make financial choices for people. 

Allison Puryear [00:22:00]: 

Exactly. Because we do not know. We think we know based on a few things they tell us in session. Yes, absolutely. We do not know. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:22:07]: 

No, no. I think we so often don’t have the insight into our clients lives that we think we do because we get a very specific slice. We have a very like intimate little dip in that we do with them, but then we don’t see the rest of their life. So I remember Yalam. If you remember Irvin Yalam, I don’t know why you need to remember him. Irvin Yalom, the brilliant writer. I Remember reading one of his books once where he talked about if you possibly can see your client in their home at least once, he was like, you will get information from going into their home one time to do an in home therapy session that you will never get knowing them for, like, 10 years. Right. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:22:39]: 

Because, like, then you actually see somebody’s full context. Right. Of like. Yeah, like, what. What is their living environment? Like, what neighborhood are they in? How do they take care of this place? What’s in their space? And there’s so much information there that we just don’t get, you know, when we’re having a conversation with somebody in a controlled space in a controlled way. So, yeah, we can make lots of assumptions that are just wrong and at our own expense. When we’re. Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:23:01]: 

When we’re sacrificing our own fee. And as you say, like, I love what you’re talking about, too, of offering that $50 sliding scale. Because $50 is a real sliding scale. Yeah, Right. I think so often we think about sliding scale. Like, as you say, like, my fee is. My fee is 200, but my sliding scale is 180. It’s like, that’s not a sliding scale. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:23:17]: 

That is a 10% discount. And anybody who can pay 180 can actually pay you $200. They just don’t want to. Right. But, like, there are folks who definitely can’t pay 200, but they can pay 50. And that’s like a true accessibility action. I think the incremental sliding scale is more just like negotiating and us making ourselves feel a little bit better. 

Allison Puryear [00:23:36]: 

Yes. Agreed. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:23:37]: 

Yeah. So really, like, be really accessible where you can, but cover your own needs for everybody else. Working with therapist Allison, I’m curious again, having worked with I can’t believe 10,000 people is your number, by the way. 

Allison Puryear [00:23:51]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:23:52]: 

Yeah, that’s a lot. Having worked with 10,000 people, what do you worry about the most when it comes to therapists and money in their private practices? 

Allison Puryear [00:24:02]: 

Y’, all, we are not putting away enough for retirement. I am so worried about that because we usually aren’t making enough in agencies to put a substantial amount away. Go for that 401k match if you got it, please. And then we pause while we’re building our practice. And if you don’t set that up, nobody’s setting that up for you. So making sure that once your practice is profitable, like, as soon as you’re practiced, I don’t care if it’s a dollar a month, I want you putting monthly into retirement. And once you have, like, Consistency in your case or in your caseload, like, in your revenue. I want you to be really clear about what to put away and just, like, automate it, make it as easy as humanly possible. 

Allison Puryear [00:24:50]: 

But I am genuinely worried about therapists not putting away enough for retirement. And hopefully all of our brains can. Like, I’ve got an aunt who’s a therapist who’s in her mid-80s and loves doing therapy still. So she’s, you know, mostly retired, but she has a few private practice clients, and she loves it. And her brain is still sharp enough to be able to do it. But, like, not all of us are going to have the sharpness that we need to continue this profession in our. In our older years. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:25:20]: 

No. 

Allison Puryear [00:25:20]: 

And we still need to be able to, like, eat and, like, I don’t know what’s coming with the world and the economy and how things are doing, but I’m not trying to put a lot of faith in being taken care of. Right. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:25:32]: 

Yes. In your. In your American context. 

Allison Puryear [00:25:35]: 

Yeah, Yeah, y’ all are. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:25:36]: 

Yeah, we’re. We’re Canadian. So far, we’re good. Knock on wood, politically. 

Allison Puryear [00:25:41]: 

Come, move. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:25:42]: 

Well, I was joking with some of my students yesterday and Money Skills for Therapists in my course about how I need to start a course called Immigration Skills for American Therapists to come to Canada, because one of my students I’ve been working with for years, she actually was looking to come up to Canada from Connecticut. It’s not as easy as you want it to be, because I have a 

Allison Puryear [00:26:00]: 

lot of friends who tried. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:26:01]: 

Why is this not easy? We should. Anyways, if I was in charge of immigration, let me tell you, you would all be in today bringing your beautiful energy to our country. But, yes, like I’m hearing, you know, you cannot rely on somebody else take care of you, even in Canada. In the Canadian context, to be clear, cpp, Canadian Pension plan only goes so far. I happened to see my mom’s CPP numbers the other day because I’m living with her right now, and, you know, there were numbers. I had to take a little peek. It’s not going to cover your living. Right. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:26:26]: 

Like, it’s, you know, we need to be taking care of ourselves. And, you know, I was talking with Tiffany McLean the other day. We did an Instagram live on her page, and she told me about a friend of her mom’s who’s a therapist, was a therapist in her 80s who is now homeless. And I was like, this is like the nightmare, right? I know, I know. And her and I were both like, Okay. I hate talking about stuff that’s like this like extreme, but it really is like nobody else is taking care of us in retirement. Right. And like you need, like you need to save quite a lot of money. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:26:56]: 

It’s not a little bit of money. It’s a lot of money. And I think, you know, there’s, there’s going to be creative things I think that happen too as we get older with like there’s more co living already happening between generations and like, you know, there’s ways that we will make it work. But ultimately nobody is saving the money for you. 

Allison Puryear [00:27:11]: 

Right. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:27:11]: 

You have to be doing it. So I love, I love your suggestions, your worry and my worry could be friends because I completely agree and I think it is completely normal that when we’re starting our practice we’re like, well, I can’t save for retirement. Like I’m barely able to pay for my bills right now while I’m building. But it’s like we need to get that money building up as soon as we can. 

Allison Puryear [00:27:30]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:27:31]: 

And even just starting with that dollar a month just to build the habit, build the muscle, you turn it up to 10, then 20, then eventually it’s 500 bucks a month. Yeah. It’s essential. This is one of the things about being in private practice is like nobody’s taking care of you. Right. Like there’s no boss who you resent, but they are also making sure there’s 401k contributions. Like that’s you, you’re the boss you resent. You need to be making those 401k contributions or in Canadian context, RRSP or TFSA contributions. 

Allison Puryear [00:28:00]: 

Yeah. And I think another like a piece of context that I don’t know, that everybody knows. I just learned it is that like 401ks started in the 90s. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:28:08]: 

Yeah. 

Allison Puryear [00:28:09]: 

Like we don’t have generations of people who have like the financial literacy around saving for retirement. Most people had pensions in the United States. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:28:20]: 

Yeah. 

Allison Puryear [00:28:20]: 

And so like it’s really like my Generation X and younger that is having to like catch up with like, oh, this is something I have to do. Because I remember in my 20s, my, you know, HR person at my agency being like, well, here’s the form for 401ks. I was like, I don’t even know what those numbers mean. You know, like I didn’t, I don’t even think I opted in. So there’s a lot of catch up that a lot of us are having to do. And I’m glad to hear that like Gen Z is actually saving More than anybody for retirement. So good on y’. All. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:28:55]: 

Yes, yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:28:56]: 

The rest of us are a little. We’ll figure it out. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:28:59]: 

I heard that millennials are currently spending on housing, which I personally am in the middle. Middle of a massive home renovation. Just tore everything back to the studs. So I am a perfect example of a millennial who’s like, but I want a nice house, but we need to be doing both, right? Like, we can’t. We can’t stop retirement contributions because we’re doing something else. We need to always be taking care of that in little amounts. Because also, too, you know, I’ll say for everybody listening is. Is the greatest kind of multiplier. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:29:25]: 

The greatest factor of retirement savings is time. Just the longer that it’s sitting there, the better, because that money compounds. And, like, the longer the time is to compound like that, that’s very powerful. So the money that you managed to put away at 27, even if you put away, like, a thousand bucks at 27, that is going to be a chunk of money by the time you retire. It’s going to be much more money than that thousand dollars you can put away at 45. 

Allison Puryear [00:29:46]: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:29:47]: 

And I say that, you know, as two people in our 40s who it’s like, damn it. 

Allison Puryear [00:29:51]: 

And I’ll say to plug your ears for this. This is for your audience. But as somebody who bought my dream house, big, beautiful, gorgeous house, it does not make me any happier. I am actually probably less happy in that house than I would be in, like, a more normal house. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:30:10]: 

Interesting. Yes. It’s funny, you know, I think I remember when you were talking about buying that house, I, like, I was talking about that idea of, like, but will it make you happier? And it’s like, I remember you and I chatted about this off mic before. Like, your house is amazing. Right? Like, you like the house, but just, you know, in a small way. Could you tell us what’s making you not happy about the house? Cause I, like, this is really important for folks to hear. 

Allison Puryear [00:30:33]: 

Yeah. Well, I think, like, gosh, how much more could. If I had half the mortgage I have. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:30:38]: 

Yeah. 

Allison Puryear [00:30:38]: 

Which would still be a nice house. Like, a good enough house. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:30:41]: 

Yeah. 

Allison Puryear [00:30:42]: 

Maybe it wouldn’t be nice. It would be a good enough house to live in, you know, but, like, I was reflecting on. Yeah. When we were broke and we would host Thanksgiving, like, friendsgivings when we lived in Seattle, and, like, there wasn’t a seat for everybody. People were sitting on the floor, People are sitting on the couch, People are sitting at the table. And, like, I was just as happy in that context as now, where I have, like, basically two dining rooms and plenty of space. And I did have the momentary. I’ve made it. 

Allison Puryear [00:31:12]: 

Yes. And then this is like, some growing up without money shit. Right? I did have some, like, okay, I made it. I did it. And then that faded. And I drive up to my house every day. I’m like, it’s so pretty. But, like, should I be putting half that money into retirement every month? Yeah, I probably should. 

Allison Puryear [00:31:33]: 

And we are not in a sales environment right now where it makes sense to sell. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:31:37]: 

Yes, yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:31:39]: 

Don’t try to sell your house right after a hurricane destroyed. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:31:42]: 

It’s a bad time. That’s not a good time. 

Allison Puryear [00:31:44]: 

No, not a good time. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:31:45]: 

Yeah. And this is where, you know, money is so emotional, right. Because, like, we make these financial decisions and we’re like, oh, I’m gonna feel now happy forever. Like, and as you say, like, there’s. There’s a. I made it there. I’m hearing for you. It’s like that. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:31:59]: 

That kid who grew up in a trailer, or did you grow up in a trailer? Do your folks just live in a trailer? 

Allison Puryear [00:32:03]: 

I grew up in a trailer, but my parents. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:32:05]: 

Okay. 

Allison Puryear [00:32:05]: 

Won’t move 

Linzy Bonham  [00:32:08]: 

that kid who grew up working class. It’s like, holy shit, look what we’ve done. And I think that’s really powerful to see that you’ve made stability and security. But there is, like, this part beyond that that doesn’t actually make us happier. 

Allison Puryear [00:32:22]: 

Right, right. It really doesn’t. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:32:23]: 

Like, I think it’s there. You know, there was that classic study years ago, which has been contested, but that money makes you happier to a point. And after that, it doesn’t. And I think in these, this day and age, I’m gonna say, my guess would be that point would be like, 90k a year. Like, if you’re making 90k a year, your happiness goes up incrementally until 90k. But above that, it’s just kind of a nicer this and a nicer that. It doesn’t actually make you happier in a spiritual sense. 

Allison Puryear [00:32:48]: 

Yeah. I can say there’s no spiritual happiness for me around my beautiful house. It’s just aesthetic. The other day, I was like, I just want to get, like, a kind of shitty house. Like, I just want, like. And then I looked and I was like, nope, never mind. That’s a little shittier than I was thinking. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:33:07]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:33:07]: 

You know? 

Linzy Bonham  [00:33:08]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:33:08]: 

I don’t want. I don’t want this caving in wall. I don’t really want that. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:33:11]: 

No, no. 

Allison Puryear [00:33:13]: 

But just finding that middle ground and not setting yourself up for your stuff to try to make you happy, because it never will. So, like, that lifestyle creep is very real, for sure. And yeah, I was just as happy in our old house, which was great and had barely any mortgage and the right interest rate and all of that, Right? 

Linzy Bonham  [00:33:32]: 

Yes, yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:33:33]: 

Don’t move. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:33:34]: 

It does make me think. Don’t move. That’s your. 

Allison Puryear [00:33:36]: 

Nice. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:33:39]: 

In conclusion, there’s a bumper sticker that my next door neighbor’s mom used to have. I used to see it all the time outside of their house, which is the best things in life aren’t things. 

Allison Puryear [00:33:47]: 

Yeah. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:33:47]: 

And there’s so much wisdom to that. And I think it’s so easy to get distracted by things. And, you know, I’m a fan of beauty and architecture, so I am still hoping the fact that I’m literally building our house and, like, designing the house we want, we will get aesthetic joy out of that. But as you like, aesthetic joy is not spiritual joy. Right. So it’s like distinguishing between those things. And if we are striving for aesthetic joy or like class status or proving something to somebody, whether it’s ourself or our dad or somebody, if we’re prioritizing that over the stuff that really matters to us, you’re not going to be happy. 

Allison Puryear [00:34:21]: 

Right. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:34:21]: 

You’re really not. Your money is not really serving you at that point. And as you say, there’s opportunity cost. It’s like whenever we’re paying for something, that money could be going to something else. Is there something else that would actually make you happier? 

Allison Puryear [00:34:30]: 

Yeah. And there is. There is great joy if you can gamify, like, investing. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:34:37]: 

Yeah. 

Allison Puryear [00:34:38]: 

Like, how much can I put away this month? How much can I put away this month? 

Linzy Bonham  [00:34:41]: 

Yes. 

Allison Puryear [00:34:41]: 

There’s real joy in that. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:34:42]: 

Totally. I like to suggest sometimes to folks when they have something specific to pay down, like they want to put extra on their student loan or there’s a certain credit card to pay, where if you have the capacity to see an extra client or two, if you’re not already super burnt out, make them your, like, student loan client. Where you’re like, whenever I see this couple, I just take the money and I put it directly on my student loan. Like, it’s so powerful to feel like, I did this. I saw this section, I did this extra session. I was a little tired, but then I could turn around and put $200 in my student loan. Right. Like that. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:35:11]: 

Direct. Yeah. Gamify bringing joy and Play into money goes a long way. 

Allison Puryear [00:35:17]: 

Yeah. It’s the way to go. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:35:18]: 

Yeah. Allison, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I so appreciate you sharing your experiences with us. And for folks who are listening who for some strange reason aren’t already deeply familiar with everything that you do, where can they go to get further into your world? Yeah. 

Allison Puryear [00:35:36]: 

You have to put WWW for some reason. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:35:39]: 

I don’t know. 

Allison Puryear [00:35:41]: 

So go old school. Www.adundancepr practicebuilding.com Beautiful. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:35:46]: 

Great. Thank you so much for joining me, Allison. 

Allison Puryear [00:35:48]: 

Thank you. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:35:54]: 

I really appreciate Allison, you know, sharing her own experiences today around money and how our challenges with money change as we make more money. And something that comes to mind for me is something that I heard Rachel Rogers, who has the community or had the community. We should all be millionaires. I remember her saying, once, you know, there’s this idea of more money, more problems, and when you have more money, there’s problems. But you know that she’d had rich people problems and she had poor people problems, and she would rather have rich people problems. Right. Like, money is complex no matter how much money we have, because money is always about, again, what really matters to us. What are our values? How do we actually shape our value lives to reflect those values and make life meaningful and rich for us? And money is a tool to do that. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:36:41]: 

So there’s different challenges that come up when we have success and when we’ve gotten beyond that survival point. There’s new challenges that come up with money and how it shapes our life and making sure that our life is still what we want it to be. But those are much better challenges than struggling to pay your bills or not being able to give your kids of things that you really want them to have. Right. Or feeling stressed about money all the time. You know, we’re always going to have challenges around money, but it is much better to have challenges around money that are about, like, meaning and joy and personal satisfaction than have challenges that are around survival. So I think Allison is an amazing illustration of how this work in this field can move you from a place of surviving to. To a place of really living and thriving and then having to decide how you want money to shape your life and what you actually want your life to look like. 

Linzy Bonham  [00:37:36]: 

I so appreciate Allison sharing her experiences today. Thank you so much for joining me today. I’m Linzy Bonham, a therapist turned money coach and the creator of Money Skills for Therapists. If you are ready to feel more calm, confident, and grounded with your private practice finances, attending one of my free up cupcapping Live workshops is the best place for you to start. From saving enough for taxes to creating stability in your private practice, to overcoming money shame and building a practice that can actually take care of you, I’m bringing you a variety of workshops to help you begin to shift your relationship with money and get your private practice finances working for you. Register today using the link in the show notes or@moneyskillsfortherapist.com workshops I look forward to supporting you.